Forum Activity for @Sebastian

Sebastian
@Sebastian
05/13/14 19:54:03
754 posts

Starter cultures for fermentation


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

The Rizeks are going to be the most advanced of the non-privatized folks to work with on this topic - they've got a very nice set up there that a member of this board helped them build in fact. Marcello Corno would be your main technical contact there, and they have a small micro laboratory on site at their main production facility. As noted, yeast selection doesn't really matter as long as the strain is viable, and it only needs to be viable for a portion of the fermentation as it will be quickly outcompeted by the other two phases. I've just reviewed some of my historical pulp pH data - now - and this is critical - assuming you've got relatively fresh pods, undiseased, you're going to have a 95% probability that your T0 pH will be between 4.74 and 4.93. That pH will drop over time as the acetobacter and lactobacter kick in, to be sure, but by the time that occurs that yeast's job is done (it's main functional job is to convert sugar to alcohol - which is important for a number of reasons) - but once that's done, it doesn't matter if the yeast lives or not.

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
05/13/14 16:55:27
1,688 posts

Starter cultures for fermentation


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Tibor -

Vicente Norero in Ecuador -- Camino Verde -- is offering several different fermentations from the same beans so I know that there is someone doing this on production scale and you can buy the beans and taste the differences.

Also, I have heard that the Rizeks in the Dominican Republic have been doing the same for some of their clients. I have not visited either facility so I don't know any of the specifics.

There are commercial sources for yeasts for the various alcohol industries - beer, wine, and spirits. Wyeast Labs is one source I know that several of my beer, wine, and mead friends use. If you wanna go all serious and stuff on this project, Lallemand may be a place to try.

One thing to consider when sourcing yeast for fermenting cacao pulp is that the pulp has a pH in the 3.5 range so you're going to want a yeast that is comfortable working at this level of acidity -- not all yeasts are.

Sebastian
@Sebastian
05/12/14 04:23:31
754 posts

Starter cultures for fermentation


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

The three things you'll need are yeast, lactic acid bacteria, and acetobacter, very concentrated. remember that naturally, there are dozens/hundreds of strains out there that are all competing with one another. At the end of the day, it usually doesn't really matter a great deal which strains you have (there are a few exceptions, but not nearly as many as you'd might expect with the thousands of combinations). while the callebaut work is actually being done, it's really more for marketing than affecting actual large scale results. others have been doing this type of thing for many, many years and are significantly more progressed in their understanding and usage of these techniques than callebaut.

Any brew house can give you the yeast, i've never looked for retail available acetobacter or lactobacter, but i'm sure they're available as well. It's important to understand the fundamentals of fermentation before starting to try to tweak the components of fermentation, so i'd encourage you to be certain you've got the basics of that down first otherwise you're going to just get frustrated and not understand why.

Tibor Baan
@Tibor Baan
05/12/14 01:09:01
9 posts

Starter cultures for fermentation


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I have heard that Barry Callebaut is working with starter cultures for their fermentation that gives great and consistent results for their fermented beans.(like yoghurt, beer, wine, cheese makers)

I am not so much interested in the consistency part, however the it is very exciting opportunity to create required flavour profile for the beans, like microbreweries do with their yeasts. It gives the opportunity to work with desired cultures, not just whatever "falls" and multiplies in your batch of beans.

Does anybody have any info on this? Should it be possible to use starter cultures used in other products like beer? Where can I find cultures that I can experiment with?


updated by @Tibor Baan: 04/11/25 09:27:36
Brad Churchill
@Brad Churchill
05/11/14 18:45:37
527 posts

Keeping from blooming ~ in silicone molds


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

The problem you're running into is that the silicone is insulating the chocolate and keeping it warm too long at temperatures which create different types of crystals. Your silicone molds need to be cool.

Juliana Desmond
@Juliana Desmond
05/11/14 17:50:21
6 posts

Keeping from blooming ~ in silicone molds


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Does lecithin help chocolate keep its temper? Or is there anything that helps prevent bloom? I use silicone molds and the chocolate starts turning a lighter color after a couple weeks. Chocolate from the same batch that I pour into polycarbonate molds stays fine, only the silicone ones bloom. Are there any suggestions for this? Thanks!


updated by @Juliana Desmond: 04/11/25 09:27:36
Reverend Pearson Hobart-Beaumari
@Reverend Pearson Hobart-Beaumari
09/29/14 15:20:42
2 posts

Medical Marijuana / Chocolate please share your experiences


Posted in: Opinion

Personally all my experience is with butter various nut oils , olive oil and tinctures. That said I have found that roughly 190 degrees sees the least degradation of the cannabinoids. One process that may be of use is to actually make an alcohol tincture and then evaporate out he alcohol with low heat creating an extract. The extract can then be added in measured doses to warm cocoa butter, though it likely will need to be warmed first to aid in it mixing uniformly throughout the butter. Naturally the strength is going to vary by plant strain, and harvest so each batch has to be individually tested, but once evaporated it is easy to test for potency and determine the appropriate quantity of extract per batch of chocolate.

One thing to note is that using a super tincturing method is best. That is where you grind the plant matter and then add the alcohol until the plant is submerged by a good inch (typically 750ml of 195 proof alcohol to 1 ounce of mmj) blend well and place in a 3qt pot. place on ELECTRIC heating coil and slowly bring to med. low heat wherein you start to get pin bubbles forming. Lower the heat to maintain just a pin bubble and stir occasionally. Heat thusly for 12 minutes ( sometimes the plant may urge you to stop at 10 minutes or continue to 15 minutes - that's between you and the plant) remove from the heat and poor off into a jar. After it cools, strain and squeeze the last of the alcohol out of the plant matter. Notice you now have an emerald green tincture. Now you can use the tincture for in liquid filled bon bons and such or add to chocolate recipes wherein the low heat levels will naturally evaporate off the rest of the alcohol.

It is interesting to know that if you use 90-100 proof alcohol and the same process, you can actually kill the THC while keeping the rest of the cannabinoids such as CBD. This tincture comes out very tanic looking - brownish, rather than green. If you use dense couch lock type strains such as NYC Diesel or Bubblegum, or other heavy Indicas, you will get a powerful aid for insomnia, relaxing of smooth muscle cramps, aid for indigestion, stomach upset and wasting syndrome. It will also aid in the relief of menstrual cramping and other symptoms as well as for the easing of tension headaches - all with out the psychoactive high. I have not tried it myself but I would guess it might give aid in the other health issues in which CBD has proven to be effective medicine. Since this tincture has a higher water content it is going to be a bit more tricky to use in chocolate recipes, though you could likely pre-evaporate, and thus concentrate the tincture moving it toward an extract.

Carlos Eichenberger
@Carlos Eichenberger
09/28/14 06:48:53
158 posts

Medical Marijuana / Chocolate please share your experiences


Posted in: Opinion

Just dissolve the cannabis oil in melted cocoa butter instead of MCT oil, and mix thoroughlyinto the chocolate with a stick blender, before tempering.

I forgot to mention that the cannabis oil must be decarboxylated for edibles. This is done by slowly heating the oil to about 210-220F, until you see small, uniform bubbles appear. Continue for about 3-5 mins or until the bubbles stop. Now your oil is ready for proper processing by the human digestive system.

Paul DeFruscio2
@Paul DeFruscio2
09/28/14 05:12:35
5 posts

Medical Marijuana / Chocolate please share your experiences


Posted in: Opinion

Cheebs

Thanks for the detailed information. At this point in time we are more interested in producing a bar. So the next question do you add the oil to the chocolate as the chocolate is being tempered? or after the chocolate is tempered? or does it matter? My goal is to produce a bar with a consistant amount of THC of CBD

Thanks

Carlos Eichenberger
@Carlos Eichenberger
09/27/14 15:48:40
158 posts

Medical Marijuana / Chocolate please share your experiences


Posted in: Opinion

Cannabis chocolate is already very common in Holland, where it's mostly sold as a souvenir. It's just a matter of time until it becomes a popular product in legal and medical states in the US.

My suggestion for achieving controlled and repeatable results is to skip the infusion process altogether, and use already extracted cannabis oils. The ones made by reputable companies have been tested for potency and purity.

My personal experience with chocolate medical edibles was making a few batches of bonbons with a cannabis oil ganache filling. For the filling I just dissolved some CO2 extracted oil (4 grams for every 32 bonbons) in MCT oil, and then incorporated that into the melted chocolate. Ganache was made as any other. This was for a double-lung transplant patient who could no longer use inhalation as a delivery system. He wanted them mostly for anxiety relief, so these were made with a high-THC oil, but it can certainly be substituted with a high-CBD oil for other medical needs.

Greg Gould
@Greg Gould
06/08/14 19:49:01
68 posts

Medical Marijuana / Chocolate please share your experiences


Posted in: Opinion

1. What do you want to know?

2. It already has

:D

Paul DeFruscio2
@Paul DeFruscio2
06/01/14 14:23:24
5 posts

Medical Marijuana / Chocolate please share your experiences


Posted in: Opinion

pour-n-pack is a single use, eco-friendly solution designed to produce and package chocolate bars. here is the youtube video showing how its used

Pour-n-pack april 2013.

Best

Paul

Thomas Snyder
@Thomas Snyder
06/01/14 12:56:22
26 posts

Medical Marijuana / Chocolate please share your experiences


Posted in: Opinion

Sure, send me a pm and we can discuss that in private.

The little elf is my daughter during her first Christmas. :)

That bar looks interesting. I've been pretty disappointed at everything called "chocolate" I have seen here in Washington. My experiences are pretty limited when it comes to that, but from what I saw, there was one company in the Seattle area selling medicated chocolates, and it was NOT chocolate. I didn't even want to try one after seeing hydrogenated oils in the ingredients.

What is your pour-n-pack program? I'm assuming you're in either California or Colorado?
Paul DeFruscio2
@Paul DeFruscio2
06/01/14 12:48:14
5 posts

Medical Marijuana / Chocolate please share your experiences


Posted in: Opinion

Tom

I do believe you have a very unique opportunity. Would like to chat with you. Can we exchange phone numbers? By the way, who is the little elf?

Best

Paul

The pic attached is a bar made by a customer using our pour-n-pack program.

Thomas Snyder
@Thomas Snyder
06/01/14 12:32:25
26 posts

Medical Marijuana / Chocolate please share your experiences


Posted in: Opinion

I do not currently have any practical experience making THC infused chocolates, but I have been looking into it pretty hard. I've done plenty of infused outlets and butters for medical purposes, but never cocoa butter. Being in Washington, I have a pretty unique opportunity. I have all the equipment to make bean to bar chocolate, I just need to devise a safe, reliable and consistent way to infuse the cocoa butter with the cannabis.I'm thinking the lowest cost option would be to infuse the cocoa butter directly with the dried plant matter. I think a sous vide system, vacuum-sealing the coca butter and flowers together. Heat to ~200 for 8 hours and then strain the cocoa butter to remove plant matter, and then send a small sample to get tested for potency. Washington state laws require every infused product to be tested for potency, so each infusion should be of as much cocoa butter as is practical, since potency testing must be done by a state licensed lab.
mda@umgdirectresponse.com
@mda@umgdirectresponse.com
05/11/14 15:23:04
59 posts

Medical Marijuana / Chocolate please share your experiences


Posted in: Opinion

I haven't made any of these products myself (not since college anyway), but in regard to your second question I think that answer is a very big yes. There are already a number of companies doing this. A quick Google search will bring up a slew of them.

I think the biggest holdup at the moment is that the legal issues still aren't worked out. For example Colorado is working on legislation that would require marijuana-infused food products to limit themselves to specific amounts of THC per serving, and I think most States are going to want to see something like this. This makes sense, but controlling for specific amounts of THC per serving strikes me as something that's going to be beyond the ability of most small-batch producers. Somebody's going to have to figure that out however, at which point I think this will turn into a niche, but sizable, market.

Paul DeFruscio2
@Paul DeFruscio2
05/11/14 06:01:18
5 posts

Medical Marijuana / Chocolate please share your experiences


Posted in: Opinion

As the debate heats up regarding the recreational use of marijuana, it is legal in 23 states for it use for medical reasons. Can any share there experiences with the group in making chocolate infused with marijuana. Second, do you think as more and more states legalize its recreational use, we will see more edible products, especially chocolate, becoming a "new" product category?


updated by @Paul DeFruscio2: 04/10/15 10:08:42
Jennifer Davis
@Jennifer Davis
05/14/14 17:21:30
17 posts

Whats going on with my chocolates?? Quality Control-Appearance concerns


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Thank you for taking the time to respond. Great Info from you two. :)

Sebastian
@Sebastian
05/14/14 13:53:41
754 posts

Whats going on with my chocolates?? Quality Control-Appearance concerns


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

There's nothing wrong with it. When you go to temper it, the fat will melt out and, assuming you achieve proper temper, the spots will go away.

To stop the heat streaking, once you're at temper, use a spatula to thoroughly mix up the tempered chocolate, let it sit a couple of minutes, and do it again. You're trying to get a consistent temperature in all the chocolate. If there's a lightbulb or some heat source that's coming on durign this time, turn it off.

For the sugar bloom, you're going to need to stop the condensation - end of story. W/o seeing the setup myself, it's hard to say exactly what's wrong, but it will boil down to controlling your relative humidity and temperatures. There are condensation charts out there on the web that'll help you understand - at a given RH of your room or cabinet - at which point it becomes cold enough for condensation to form.

Sebastian
@Sebastian
05/14/14 13:09:57
754 posts

Whats going on with my chocolates?? Quality Control-Appearance concerns


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

That is fat bloom, caused by untempered, or incompletely tempered, chocolate. Not to say there' sno moisture present (it's hard to tell from the photo), but i'd bet you your next batch of chocolate that what is visable in this photo is fat bloom.

Jennifer Davis
@Jennifer Davis
05/14/14 12:56:06
17 posts

Whats going on with my chocolates?? Quality Control-Appearance concerns


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I did get a new baffle but I still have the issue. I am thinking about sending in my tempering machine to have them just look it over.

I am convinced it is moisture coming from somewhere on my production line. Maybe a few places. Here are a few more pics. After I grind the chocolate I store it in ziploc bags which I then store until we are ready to temper.

On these pics you will see what appears to be moisture that was caused by sealing the bags too soon. Does it look that way to you?

Also, What is the best way to store chocolate that has just come out of the grinder?

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
05/11/14 08:41:17
1,688 posts

Whats going on with my chocolates?? Quality Control-Appearance concerns


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Jennifer -

If Sebastian is right, then one step would be to install a dehumidifier in the room and also to install some sort of humidity sensor so you can discover the environmental conditions that lead up to this. This will help you understand the sugar bloom issues. (I often notice a textural change in chocolate that has sugar bloomed - it can taste sandy and granular.)

As for the swirls appearing in the chocolate. Get a good fast-reading digital probe thermometer and check to make sure that the thermocouple in the Rev is actually reading properly. Replacing the probe (by replacing the baffle) could help solve that problem.

Jennifer Davis
@Jennifer Davis
05/10/14 09:58:38
17 posts

Whats going on with my chocolates?? Quality Control-Appearance concerns


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Thank you. What's strange is that the " bloom" is happening so fast. Sometimes within a week. This never happened before but I think you are right about the moisture. Just wondering why now all of a sudden.
Sebastian
@Sebastian
05/09/14 20:16:23
754 posts

Whats going on with my chocolates?? Quality Control-Appearance concerns


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Not having looked at the post in detail, from the pictures you've got a combination of sugar bloom and something called heat streaks. Sugar bloom is the result of your chocolates getting wet at some point (likely condensation after cooling), and heat streaks are the result of your tempered chocolate not being thoroughly mixed/agitated, resulting in some areas being cooler than other areas within the chocolate mass itself.

Jennifer Davis
@Jennifer Davis
05/09/14 15:24:09
17 posts

Whats going on with my chocolates?? Quality Control-Appearance concerns


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I was hoping that some of you could chime in on what is happening on my chocolates. I have been in business for 4 years in the SAME location. I am still in my certified home kitchen.

What we are finding lately (the last 3 months or so) the chocolates have not been holding their flavor very long. Also, and the most concerning, is what appears to be a fast spreading "bloom". So much so that I have had to pull chocolates that are only a few weeks old (in some cases only a week) and sell them as seconds or use them as samples.

I am attaching a few pictures for you to look at.

Humidity: The weather has been changing from winter to spring. THere has been some rain so I know this is adding to the humidity.

from fridge to room temperature: I have always stored my "centers" before dipping and chocolate after dipping and wrapping in a typical refrigerator. We have 5 now. It has always worked in the past even with the "shock" it sometimes goes thru when we pull them out of the cold into room temperature (65-68 degrees). When choc's would start condensating we would immediately stop for the day but this only happened on the most extreme days (high rain or high heat outside).

I have since turned up my refrigerators as far as they can go to lessen the possibility of condensation.

Candy Pads: We store our chocolate with candy pads in between each layer. We have recently switched to regular food service film between layers. Lately wherever candy pads have touched the "bloom" (for lack of something better to call it) makes it look worse. However the 'bloom' is down the sides of the chocolate too where the pad didn't touch.

Tempering:We have a Rev 3210. We have only just begun making sure we are continuing the tempering process after dipping by leaving the chocolates out for several hours before they go in the fridge.

We think we have a moisture issue which is why we turned UP the storage refrigerators to lessen the condensation.

Swirls:As long as we keep the temperature consistently between 88-90 while dipping we are usually ok but in the picture you will see that swirls are also an issue. Especially over the last 9 months or so. As a matter of fact they have gotten worse until recently.

Any info you can give me would be greatly appreciated. Like I said, we have pretty much been doing the same thing with the same recipe for a few years but all of a sudden we are having this problem.

Thanks!

Jennifer Davis

The Great Unbaked

p.s. this is RAW chocolate if it matters.


updated by @Jennifer Davis: 04/11/25 09:27:36
jeff goh
@jeff goh
05/11/14 21:07:19
5 posts

Adding Rum into chocolate truffles


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I understood now. Thanks Jim. ;)

Jim Dutton
@Jim Dutton
05/09/14 07:01:21
76 posts

Adding Rum into chocolate truffles


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Recipes ordinarily call for adding any liquor (or other liquid flavoring) to the ganache mixture--after the emulsion of cream and chocolate hassuccessfully been formed. The liquid should definitely not be added to the chocolate as you are tempering it. That would be just like pouring water into the chocolate--not a pretty sight.

jeff goh
@jeff goh
05/08/14 21:35:20
5 posts

Adding Rum into chocolate truffles


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Hi guys,

great to know you all. I just like to know how truffles were made with rum ? Do you add the rum into cream mixture of milk/dark chocolate for making ganache or during the tempering of the chocolate to make the chocolate shell? thanks guys.


updated by @jeff goh: 04/11/25 09:27:36
Mike3
@Mike3
05/09/14 12:22:40
63 posts

Femag Roaster??


Posted in: Opinion

I looked them up and found their website but not much more: http://www.femagagro.com/

Brad Churchill
@Brad Churchill
05/08/14 17:42:41
527 posts

Femag Roaster??


Posted in: Opinion

I just bought a FemagTM250 Roaster.

Anybody know anything about them?


updated by @Brad Churchill: 04/10/15 02:53:56
Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
05/08/14 10:43:22
1,688 posts

Celebrating upcoming US Holidays: National Chocolate Chip Cookie Day and National Donut Day


Posted in: Opinion

May 15th, 2014 is National Chocolate Chip Cookie Day here in the US.

What are your favorite chocolate chip cookie recipes, pairings, and or experiences? Most unusual chocolate chip cookie or the most unusual place you've eaten a chocolate chip cookie?

On a related note, June 6th is National Donut Day. What's your favorite donut/chocolate pairing? Who makes the best chocolate donuts? What's the must unusual chocolate/donut mashup you've ever had?


updated by @Clay Gordon: 04/14/15 05:42:23
Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
05/08/14 10:41:29
1,688 posts

? I have a Hillard's Dipper


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Maggie -

We are going to need a little more detail than this to help you out. What kind of chocolate? What temperatures ... also in the room you're working in. How you're cooling, and more.

Have you been in touch with their technical support?

Larry2
@Larry2
05/08/14 09:26:29
110 posts

? I have a Hillard's Dipper


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Is it analog (dial temperature setting) or digital? - If it is analog, your thermometer and the dial may not be calibrated correctly. - There is a small set screw on the bottom of the dial. It got loose on mine and caused issues.

I used a thermometer to measure the temp of the chocolate when the lights were coming off and on. - Then loosened the screw and set the dial to that temp. - Life was easier and better after that.

Is the machine heating too much? Is the chocolate getting too thick?

Could you share pictures and be much more descriptive?

Also, Hilliards has pretty good customer service. They may be able to help.

Larry

Maggie Prittie
@Maggie Prittie
05/07/14 22:51:11
3 posts

? I have a Hillard's Dipper


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I bought this Dipper, have had nothing but problems.

Is it me?

Has anyone had problems? Can't seem to keep it in temper, have had to , well

So Just Not Happy


updated by @Maggie Prittie: 04/11/25 09:27:36
Jonas Hoekman
@Jonas Hoekman
05/07/14 14:57:44
4 posts

cooker for jelly and pate de fruit with removable bowl


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Hello their

I am looking for an alternative to my Kenwood cooking chef that can handle about 6 times the amount I can make with the cooking chef.

and with the same options and removable bowl, whisk, and with natural gas as heating source instead of induction.

To make pate de fruit, karamel and others.


updated by @Jonas Hoekman: 04/11/25 09:27:36
Ian Thomson
@Ian Thomson
05/08/14 02:20:19
2 posts

allergy free chocolates


Posted in: Allow Me to Introduce Myself

we really don't need to go to so much detail just an estimate that sounds feasible.

We have concentrated on vegan and allergen free as they are very combinable and broaden our horizon.

I believe the market is a lot larger than you think and their are people out there , research suggests 7 to 10 % of children suffer from allergies, the most common being milk egg soy and nuts.. their are plenty of vegan chocolates out there but still few holiday goodies.. vegans tend to love nuts and thats why it is hard to find chocolates that dont say may contain traces of nuts.

as i said to our competition they do seem to be doing well at least in other countries, Moo Free is an example that started in the uk, now supplies to 12 different countries, they started for the same reason as i, but just for vegans, in 2010.. four years later they are selling in all leading retail outlets an amount of 65 000 easter eggs and their numbers are doubling each year.. they also do slabs and chocolate bars.. their is also a very popular vegan chocolate producecr in berlin and their products are flying off the shelves..

Why don't big retailers stock vegan chocolate?

This i cant understand.. dont they know that vegan people eat chocolate too?

One might say that they believe the market isn't big enough, but if i walk into any big retailer i will be able to buy vegan yogurt. this i find strange for two reasons

eat soya yogurt target vegans

soya yogurt is perishable so must be sold fast..

vegans eat chocolate too and chocolate is not as fragile as yogurt..

and with regards to price we do compete against brands that dont mind using nuts, which most people can eat and taste nice.. and vegan and allergy children would not experience a chocolate easter and christmass in the same quantity or any other chocolate quantity for that matter solely because of price.. if you take the average kid and how much chocolate he eats and a vegan kid you will see a big difference in quantity.. and we believe this is because of the price..

our products would be a 23g bar and a 150 gram bar as well as easter and xmass goodies..

we are not wanting to go from been to bar, but will be making the product out of cocoa powder and butter..

I have started a little bit backwards i know , but thats because i am not able to find out how much everything will cost, i must rely on the product prices of my competition..

i do not have to give a business plan but an oral pitch outlining some of the most important numbers

thank you very much for the comments so far i will be sharing it with my group... its so nice to get a point of veiw from someone in the business of chocolate.

thanks

ian

mda@umgdirectresponse.com
@mda@umgdirectresponse.com
05/07/14 14:59:09
59 posts

allergy free chocolates


Posted in: Allow Me to Introduce Myself

Youre right; you have taken a pretty big bite! I dont know how much time you have to complete this, but I hope its at least another few weeks! Anyway, while reading your post a few questions and thoughts came to me. Maybe they will be helpful.

1) You said you wanted a vegan Easter egg because your son is allergic to milk. As Im sure you know however, dairy-free and vegan are not the same thing. If you go vegan, youll likely be dealing with other complications. For example, you wont be able to use numerous food additives and/or stabilizers that you might want to use, such as gelatins, lactic acid, lecithin, beeswax, shellac, etc. And yes, there are vegan replacements for many of these items, but they can be difficult to find and will usually increase your product cost. Why not just remove the dairy? Wouldnt that be simpler? Or do you specifically want your product to be vegan? If you do want a vegan product thats fine, but make sure you are clear on what the specific goal is, because the production of vegan products is more complicated than dairy-free products, and vegans are not exactly known for their sense of humor about these things.

2) You say that you want to sell a 23-gram bar for 60 cents, but then state that you have no idea what it would cost to produce each bar. Which means that you are deciding on a price before you know your costs. And yet you want the largest profit margin possible. Ian, how do you expect to control your profit margins if you create a selling price before you even know your costs? This is not how it works. FIRST you figure out your costs. Product cost. Labor cost. Other overhead costs. Then you figure out how much each unit costs you. Then you determine your margin. THEN you price. And leave some buffer room, because youll be lucky if your numbers actually work out to be as accurate as you hoped.

3) You say that you want relatively affordable products for children. Why? Children dont care about price, because children dont have money. They either get money from their parents, or their parents just buy it for them. In my opinion you should not be focusing on making your products inexpensive. You should be focusing on making them high quality. Why? Well first of all, parents typically focus on saving money with the regular day-to-day things. Easter eggs and other chocolates are treats, and parents are far less price-sensitive when purchasing them.

Secondly, youre making a specialty product, which means your costs will be greater and your pool of customers smaller. Theres a reason that one vegan egg you found cost 7 euros. Just because the price was too much for you, that doesnt mean its too much.

And finally, you are making a product for children with allergies. Parents need to trust you. Which means you need to communicate high quality. Low prices typically communicate the opposite, which means your messaging and pricing will be working at cross-purposes. While it might not seem intuitive, I think its likely that in the market youre looking to enter, low prices would probably hurt you more than help you.

4) Speaking of your market, how big is it? And by that I dont mean how many people live in Berlin. How many people in Berlin suffer from nut allergies? In the US, its about 1%. Is it the same where you live? How many people in Berlin are vegans? In the US its about 2.5%, although that number is self-reported. Can you sustain a business when you start out by eliminating 98%-99% of your potential market? I dont know. Maybe. But you want to think about how youll make that work.

5) Also, you said that you could hardly find any vegan Easter eggs in Berlin, and you could not find a single vegan Easter egg in all of Berlin without nuts. If Berlin really is the vegan capital of Germany, and nobody is trying to sell a vegan Easter egg, what does that tell you? Do you think that this means that you are the first person to think of this? Or is it possible that the companies who already make Easter eggs have researched this and determined that the market is too small to be worth it? In other words, is this a market that is under served, or a market that doesnt really exist? This strikes me as something you would want to figure out before you build a factory.

6) You also stated that you could not find an Easter egg without nuts. Why? Setting aside the vegan issues, is this because there is a tradition in Germany (or Berlin) to make Easter eggs in a very specific way? If so, this could add another non-trivial complicating factor. You might be able to market to non-vegans and people without nut allergies if they think that your product is pure and of high quality. But if removing nuts from your Easter eggs makes them non-traditional in a society that places high value on the traditional aspects of such a product, youre going to have a significantly more difficult time selling these to anyone outside of your 1% or 2%.

Final thoughts You appear to be doing a few important things backwards. You are determining your final price before you even know your costs, and you are wondering how much it would cost to build a factory before you even know if anyone wants your product.

You live in a city that only sells blue widgets, and you want to sell red widgets. Do you really think that an investors first question will be, how much does the factory cost? If I were an investor, I would want you to tell me what your product idea is and why people are going to want it. I would want to know that, first and foremost, you spent your time researching the product and the market. Then we could talk about operational details.
How much does it cost to build a factory that makes square tires? I dont know. Does it matter?

All that having been said, I would not think in terms of a factory for this product until the demand is shown to exist. If I were doing this, I would a small to medium-sized workshop selling in your area alone. If that works out you could expand later. Clay and others here have a lot more experience, and will probably have a better idea of costs, but I would think you could buy the equipment for a small chocolate workshop (depending on what you want to make you were not entirely clear on that point) for 50,000 - 75,000. And if you dont want or need to actually make the chocolate, you could reduce that quite a bit.

The complicating factor for expansion of course is that the equipment you buy is based on the quantity you are looking to produce. How much product would you need to make to sell in major cities throughout German? Exactly what type of products are you going to be making? Without knowing that, its impossible to properly decide which equipment to buy. Other costs would depend on whether you wanted a brick and mortar retail presence as opposed to e-commerce, how much marketing you wanted to do, how much legal you need, startup taxes and fees imposed by your local and national governments, initial capital outlays for inventory, etc.

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